In this episode, Steve and Jay meet up to discuss the impending retirement of Skype for Business Online, and what that means for CCE and Skype for Business Hybrid. Steve quizzes Jay to find out how smaller and larger businesses in different scenarios should approach moving their voice systems to the cloud
00:00 Steve Goodman
This is the all about 365 podcast I'm Steve Goodman
00:03 Jason Wynn
and I'm Jason Wynn.
00:04 Steve Goodman
And in this episode we are out by Lichfield Cathedral in the open air, socially distanced so you might hear a little bit of background noise, but we were still together and recording, which is good. I've got the the three meter cables to make sure we're ultra safe.
00:18 Jason Wynn
Yeah, the distances still feels a little slightly alien, Steve.
00:22 Jason Wynn
Recording in the in the wide open public.
00:26 Jason Wynn
Though we have been recording sessions of anytime when we were been in there. You know, at ignite or in Orlando or or in all sorts and it feels even even more unique that we're recording at the on the footsteps of Lichfield cathedral today.
00:40 Steve Goodman
Yeah, so in the show today we're going to talk about Skype Hybrid.
00:44 Steve Goodman
And some of the changes that are coming for moving your phone system from on premises to online with hybrid voice.
00:55 Jason Wynn
Yeah, and an Microsoft have obviously made a massive announcement this this last year that as of the 31st of July 2021 that's it. Skype online will cease to be supported would no longer be there, so our path for Migration for all aspects of teams has to be in place, so it's a It's a big piece of work for particularly large organizations that have.
01:17 Jason Wynn
Lots of different, you know. Dovetailed into Skype for business online to move off of those things, so that way we can get that migration moving now.
01:24 Steve Goodman
So why did organizations go hybrid in the first place?
01:29 Jason Wynn
So there's usually going to be a couple of different ways of different reasons or explanations why they voluntary gone the hybrid and why they're retaining some sort of on Prem Environment and the reasons for that is.
01:41 Jason Wynn
Is going to be down to technical requirements such as a call center or they have the requirements to do some sort of voice recording or it's going to be contractual obligation so they've got a sip trunk and they haven't yet move that over to a direct route or or they're trying to trying to keep those things going and they haven't got their ability to go over to.
02:01 Jason Wynn
Skype for business online or between into teams native.
02:05 Steve Goodman
So if we rollback, yeah two or three years at least, and we think about why people do this in the 1st place. So we rollback before teams. It was a bit of a different landscape when it came to Skype.
02:20 Steve Goodman
Online on premises, hybrid voice and the the options available then were reasonably limited, so if you weren't running any sort of on premises environment then perhaps you could go straight to the cloud. But Well, you know if you were running Skype for business 2015.
02:40 Steve Goodman
We just moved over from Link 2013. Yeah, what? What were your options at the time? If you wanted to hybridize your on premises voice environment an and adopt Skype for business online for some users.
02:52 Jason Wynn
Yeah, we we can. We can establish that then. So we would obviously create the hybrid configuration between the on Prem in Office 365 and then we would obviously have that connection between the voice platform.
03:03 Jason Wynn
And the PSTN connectivity and the local on Prem environment. So what we would need to do is we need to remain and retain those people on Prem and they would still have the. You could have people within your business there are residing within the on Prem Environment and then they have to obviously speak to the people within Office 365. So that's why we would hybrid those two configurations up.
03:23 Steve Goodman
So in that scenario.
03:24 Steve Goodman
They they would have been running as UID connect. They would have had their Skype for on premises servers and in particular edge servers providing that mediation between on premises on in on the cloud. Yeah I'm providing a shared sip address space.
03:41 Jason Wynn
Yeah, yeah you do, you share this step so spread it your your domain, your chip, then they would be spread across the on Prem.
03:47 Jason Wynn
In Office 365.
03:48 Steve Goodman
Exactly right. In addition to that, they may have had sip trunks that were terminating, perhaps directly at Skype for business on Prem. Yeah, or after session border controller.
03:58 Jason Wynn
Yeah, so they the sip connections would end up terminating within the, either within the SBC's on Prem or they will be migrating in there. We.
04:07 Jason Wynn
Residing within depending on some sip providers you can have that go into a a mediation pool and the mediation pool then would be residing within the the front ends and such. But yeah, so yeah you could have different myriad of ways of you can actually get that set connection into teams. So the key point here is that those people would reside on Prem.
04:27 Jason Wynn
And then anybody that didn't require the voice aspects would reside within Office 365.
04:31 Steve Goodman
OK, and if you did have a sip trunk terminating on Prem and you had users on Prem as well, could you have moved those move CS user into the cloud and route voice services to them as well?
04:45 Jason Wynn
No, you couldn't. You couldn't migrate voice services over because they had a.
04:48 Jason Wynn
Live on Prem to be able to access those voice aspects of it, so which is obviously changing quite a lot to what we're having going forward. Where we if we if we want to be able to, you know, move the teams and we want to think about that. Then obviously how we make those jump points is gonna be different so you.
05:04 Steve Goodman
Couldn't move those people to teams, but they they could have had on premises PSTN connectivity.
05:10 Steve Goodman
But Skype for business online yes, yeah. OK, so there's gonna be organizations in that scenario where they've moved a large number if not all users to Skype for business online, but they're relying on an old on premises hybrid environment. Yep, for getting some of their PSTN connectivity to the cloud. And then you've got something called CC. So what we see?
05:33 Jason Wynn
CC was called Cloud Connector Edition Cloud Connector Edition where for organizations that had a Greenfield at the time that wanted to be able to use the on Prem telephone E. Whether it's a sip trunk or a PSTN, integration into it, an old PBX and it allowed them to have that integration into those that have that touch point on Prem.
05:53 Jason Wynn
Without having to actually implement a whole enterprise edition or a standard edition of infrastructure, and it had all the virtual services you required to be able to have that connectivity within a single VM, now those often were built into the session border controllers that we we have on site, so that way it ran the virtual machines. It was kind of watered and managed and maintained by Microsoft.
06:17 Jason Wynn
And then obviously, that was then connected up to the natively within the internal integration into the session border controller to allow us to have that functionality out to have that telephone egress and Ingress point so.
06:27 Steve Goodman
CC to a lot of people would be almost like and in the marketing world presented as an appliance. Yeah, that gave you a route to bring your own trunk.
06:38 Steve Goodman
To Office 365, but actually it was effectively that hyper V running a standardized non domain joined back not not joined to your domain. Yes set of virtual machines that was effectively a cut down Skype for business on Prem Server State.
06:58 Steve Goodman
It was specially for that kind of purpose. It's almost like you know a.
07:04 Steve Goodman
It's not a black box appliance really, but it is a Microsoft standard setup.
07:09 Jason Wynn
Yeah yeah it it. Here it was running four VMS in exactly as you say they had, you know, edge services. The media services had a cut down version of the O ID and then obviously had the front end services all running within that appliance.
07:24 Jason Wynn
Those were running within within kind of subset and kind of a sectioned off proportion of the SBC and then that obviously gave a connectivity to the. Like you said it wasn't necessarily a black box, but it's certainly kind of a Turkey solution that allowed us to connect that that functionality up.
07:40 Steve Goodman
And if you were running that, then I'm guessing.
07:44 Steve Goodman
You could obviously one point is you couldn't run on premises users on it. This was you would have deployed. This organization would have deployed this to bring your own sip trunk or bring connectivity to your interoperability with your other phone system to Skype for business online, correct? And the challenge you've got. Again there is. It's like Skype for business hybrid.
08:05 Steve Goodman
You can't move those people with their voice services over to teams.
08:10 Jason Wynn
Correct, yeah? And that's the biggie is that if we can have the integration between the telephone platforms between Skype for business online, but we can't have the telephone integration into teams, and that's what the big announcements that we've had coming forward is that obviously with the demise.
08:25 Jason Wynn
With Skype we need to move and start planning those those services over, and when you obviously we have those two kind of touch points with the old telephone, which is either going to be hybrid into an you know existing Skype for business environment or a link environment 2013 that's been set up in the hybrid configuration or we're going to be running things via the CC.
08:46 Steve Goodman
OK, so we've got the reasons why you might have had that set up and there's a there is a challenge there and there's an end date for this which is less than a year for now. The end of July 2021 is update that you've gotta have moved across from that over to the more modern technology, correct? We spoke about direct routine previous podcasts, but.
09:07 Steve Goodman
For those new to this in this situation today, what's direct routing? What's your elevator pitch for while you know what? What does it do?
09:16 Jason Wynn
So direct routing allows us to again utilizes session border controller or a sip provider to give us the connectivity natively into teams. So it yeah, rather than having Ingress points via cloud connector or have existing infrastructure.
09:30 Jason Wynn
It's a more seamless way that much more clever way of taking all that configuration that we would have had before and then moving them in. Now the good news is is a lot of the sip trunk providers that you would have used before are starting to have a service offering to allow us to have that connectivity in. Likewise, if you had a session border controller that was certified.
09:51 Jason Wynn
For Skype for business, may now will be, you know with a firmware upgrade in the in the introduction of new software, as long as that device is under, you know services under support that allows you to have that connectivity and now the good news is that if we can go ahead and upgrade that firmware into it, we should be able to update that device to be able to have us into a direct route natively.
10:12 Steve Goodman
OK, so if you so your current deployment today might involve a what's what's now ribbon session border controller and with is it additional licensing usually.
10:23 Jason Wynn
You usually don't have to have additional license if you have that connector already set up within it to Skype, which is usually just a uplift of the of the firmware on the device itself.
10:33 Steve Goodman
So you might, if you're extremely lucky already have the building blocks the Lego pieces to make this. Yeah, but it's it's not a simple then as as enabling this and there you go. So if we were on.
10:48 Steve Goodman
See which is easiest, hybrid or CC to move from and two direct routing.
10:54 Jason Wynn
Yeah, so if you think about it, what we're trying to do is ultimately the same thing for me. It's easier to do. Probably a CC, or because we're all we don't have to have to win to worry about decommissioning an existing environment.
11:09 Jason Wynn
Uh, if we're writing, if you're running a hybrid environment anyway, and you're running with or CC into and you have something that's highly available, then what we can often do is utilized this standby or the hot hot available environment so that device and then we can do that would make it the primary and then swing the other way back over again. If you need to, OK?
11:29 Steve Goodman
So I've got a scenario then. So say I'm I'm a business I keep it simple I've got I've got a single site an and at that site I've got a sip trunk that comes in on a dedicated line into an SBC and currently I've got CC running on those virtual machines and all is well, but I need to move to teams.
11:51 Steve Goodman
And objects and I can do a firmware upgrade. Yeah, and I can also. I've also spoken to my sip vendor. They also able to provide direct connectivity as well as the big new thing that they do. What what? I've got a couple of options there. Yeah, what does that mean then? As I move people across I've got.
12:11 Steve Goodman
100 people. How do I get them across? Can I do it gradually?
12:15 Jason Wynn
Other's number of steps. So if you if you have the SBC, you can do things gradually, assuming that you know you've already set up the connectivity and you set everything up and use cricket, configure the direct route. The nice thing about having the SBC available to you is that you can move it as slowly as you are.
12:33 Jason Wynn
And what the SBC's can do is a reverse number. A reverse look up against a particular AD attribute, and then apply that content back through that allow you to to move slowly. Now, if we're moving things over to the sip cloud provider and we want and they have a direct route offering, and if they already provide the services for us, what we would do then is we can configure that up. They would do the change for us, and they can manage all that for us.
12:55 Jason Wynn
On their end, and then we just supply this. The sip configuration within the teams Admin Center to be able to have that functionality in.
13:01 Steve Goodman
So we're gonna have to do some configuration ourselves. Yeah, in the teams admin center. Yeah to get ready, but unless I've unless I've got control of of the SBC myself, then I'm going to struggle to swing.
13:16 Steve Goodman
Individual numbers across then correct.
13:18 Jason Wynn
Yeah, you will have to do well to do things kind of through will have to migrate those users numbers over into teams from Skype for business or in put 'em in properly so that way 'cause obviously if we're no longer utilizing an on premise then the numbers have to reside within 365 to be able to have that configuration within it so.
13:36 Steve Goodman
If I want to move people gradually across and follow that some more normal.
13:42 Steve Goodman
Process to to move different groups of users departments across to use teams. Then I'm gonna be reliant on either a very flexible telephony provider or which is perhaps you know something you can't take for granted. No, primarily at SBC, that's going to mediate that, so that's my. So I've got my CCE way forward.
14:05 Steve Goodman
Yeah, let's think about, perhaps you know more complicated environment where I've got Skype for business to deployed across.
14:13 Steve Goodman
'cause it will scale up as opposed to songs. Yeah, two sites. One in the UK, one in the US. Yeah, I've got telephony providers going in. Perhaps one is going in direct to Skype for business in the UK? Yeah, another. I've gotten SBC in the US from a different provider, that's that's interfacing with.
14:34 Steve Goodman
An older phone system. OK, and I want to move these these people across. Yeah, that sounds that that sounds like.
14:42 Steve Goodman
I've got a more complex scenario, it's.
14:44 Jason Wynn
Yeah, we're moving. We're moving one organization in two different facets of how our method had the methodology in which we're moving it.
14:51 Steve Goodman
So what do I need to think about for?
14:52 Jason Wynn
So the first step is to take a look at what what it is we're trying to achieve within 365. So you take the on Prem where we have the older telephone system in it and we're trying to then.
15:03 Jason Wynn
Kind of makes that in 2365 into teams natively. You understand what? Again we look at. What were the reasons why people didn't move in the 1st place, why we didn't move in natively? So we look at the technical requirements in the technical objectives in which they have to meet, and then we try to mirror that and make that happen within.
15:20 Steve Goodman
The US got my SBC. I've I've got a.
15:24 Steve Goodman
Control phone system running at contact center then as well. Yep, so that's one of my challenges. Yeah, so that all works.
15:33 Steve Goodman
I've I bought the advanced compliance stuff in. You know, knowing that this will happen about?
15:38 Steve Goodman
What do I do?
15:39 Jason Wynn
So then we we replicate what we're trying to do, or we enhance even further than what we were already getting from the existing solution. So we look at what we've got within teams and we and we match that up. So as and when we need to be able to do beyond what teams is available at doing, then we have the advanced compliance QCR advanced communication skill like you said.
15:58 Jason Wynn
Yeah, we can integrate that into a third party solution and we build that up ahead of time so that way we're not we're jumping from the from the old system to a new system immediately. We would pilot it out, validate that the IVR is the direct deposit. This, Yep, exactly build out my yeah totally, but I'm gonna go. I'm going in all teams then at this point, right? Yeah.
16:19 Steve Goodman
Or can I use my SBC in the middle to to keep my old contact center?
16:23 Jason Wynn
You could do OK, however, that obviously that's only for the short term. What we will ultimately want to do is the CC will not work with teams, so we can't do that. And even if we have a.
16:34 Steve Goodman
Direct, so this is our Skype for business hybrid scenario. Yeah, two countries. I've got my SBC in the states. Yeah, that's running there.
16:41 Steve Goodman
It's going to my old contact center, right? Yeah, so it's it's doing that mediation. But your scenario, the ideal one is you're going there eventually. You've got perhaps enough time to plan to build out this. Build out your teams environments in advance of this and get the full solution ready before you start transitioning people across.
17:02 Jason Wynn
I wouldn't retain the old health. They'll contact center because the amount of the amount of effort that you would have in and out of that. What I would suggest is to do what we're saying before is have something that's current that allows you to work, so allows you to have the functionality that you need to have within teams so you can answer the calls natively within teams and have the integration points you know the intricate dashboards and such and the agent usage that we want to be able to have from teams.
17:25 Jason Wynn
Where we were just waiting to be able to have that natively. If we were just going through old contact center via the SBC via direct route.
17:31 Steve Goodman
And considering it is, it's.
17:33 Steve Goodman
It's October now, yes, October tomorrow. Let's say my example multinational. You know Org with two sites in the UK in the US about 1000 people right? OK.
17:45 Steve Goodman
If we were thinking of 20 thousand, 40,000 things could get very and very complex. Yeah Organisations. Yeah that they should have been planning this before now and they are going to have a more complex route. But do you think you know that kind of scenario where it's not super complex but it's got the odd snag that they couldn't solve six months ago?
18:06 Steve Goodman
Do you think that's an achievable timeline? It we're starting today.
18:09 Jason Wynn
I think that you would telephone telcos are or in in telephone. E is quite interesting in that respect that people often set it and forget it. Other than this data removes as changing deletions. Things tend to be set up and then laughed so it wouldn't surprise me in the least that there are organizations out there.
18:27 Jason Wynn
Particularly large kalama rates in large multi multi Geo companies that are now thinking and they suddenly there windows people are saying FY I that you know Skype is going to be on its way out and telcos don't often. The telco providers and everything like that don't often move very quick, so there are definitely gonna be instances now where we can do things that we have where direct routes may been out for awhile but.
18:49 Jason Wynn
Their providers may not have had that services natively into teams, so now we have the ability didn't go apply that in so definitely, and likewise they may have an SBC that wasn't certified before, so now we have the ability to get that direct route natively from their SBC. So rather than those two options in the service offering, so continue to grow. Likewise, they may not have gone because they couldn't get that functionality or some particular functionality from teams, but.
19:12 Jason Wynn
Now we can. So now we can do that like compliance recording in in the contact center aspects are now natively broken out from teams, whereas we didn't have that before, so things that may have hindered us originally now no longer do.
19:25 Steve Goodman
So we've got a relatively short time scale, Yeah, but the pieces are there an and it's.
19:32 Steve Goodman
It's potentially achievable, then you know is.
19:35 Jason Wynn
That certainly achievable, and it's again ensuring that you have either the right, the right people within your team, or the right organization. The right partner to work with, so that way you don't get caught with the gotchas. So that way you understand the pitfalls before you even pilot, so that way if there are anything that you need to have or things that you don't understand, then you could obviously.
19:53 Jason Wynn
Ensure that you can catch those early on.
19:55 Steve Goodman
OK, so it sounds like there could be a plan then if if you're in that scenario. Yeah you need. You have to get through this, but you've got two options. Then you've got. Plan this out for a destination where everybody is going to be on teams.
20:13 Steve Goodman
Natively, but if if you left this until after after the New Year made you know February, March will come along very, very quickly. Yeah, you're going to be in a scenario where you almost certainly need to pick your an SBC that can work with both direct routing and your on premises environment suit.
20:35 Steve Goodman
To sit between a legacy solution that you can't move and the and the new solution that you you're gonna move to, yeah, so you end up in a scenario where your old contact center solution that's sitting there is still working. You decommission your CC or you decommission your Skype for business.
20:55 Steve Goodman
Yeah, premises environment. Yeah, do you evacuated all the users off?
21:00 Steve Goodman
And move those groups of users.
21:02 Jason Wynn
Yeah, in an obviously what you would. You would also look at what's the feasibility of going natively to Microsoft using Calling Plans if you needed to, so that way if you're no longer under obligation to carry on using your sip trunk provider and it's a cost effective to do so when you when it doesn't make sense to go natively with the Microsoft for the Calling Plans.
21:22 Jason Wynn
And then review the whole piece. So can I get the functionality from it? And is it commercially viable for me to go natively with Microsoft? And the answer is, it depends. It depends on what you're trying to achieve, what you're trying to do, and that's why it's kind of good to get started looking at now. So that way you don't get caught up in a scenario where we're trying to meet.
21:43 Jason Wynn
Our financial requirements. Our commercial obligations to to party. If you have time to plan these things out and you can maybe it will speak to them now and say we appreciate we have a sip trump through. But can we make it a direct route? Then we could work with him now to be able to get the offering going. Likewise, if you have a endure sip trunk provider is now you know contract sorting, month month and you're trying to make sure.
22:05 Jason Wynn
Then, obviously, if it's more commercially viable to go natively with Microsoft and that's the easiest option, because then everything is housed in. You don't have to worry about the direct route, the configuration you just configure everything within teams itself and all of your all of your telephone E and such, and all your PBX then is managed by Microsoft, and this is the easier option to be able to do that.
22:26 Steve Goodman
So so if you if when you went to CCE you looked at the regions that Microsoft had availability and they didn't revisit that now obviously they've opened up to more countries.
22:37 Jason Wynn
Yep, as they've also tomorrow, yeah, they've.
22:41 Steve Goodman
October the first yes. And when it comes to some of these additional capabilities for people on CSP, NEA's, they've they've got some offers on discounts on the advanced communications licenses. I think free PSTN conferencing licenses as well. Yeah, so that we usually have a scenario, Umm, so.
23:04 Jason Wynn
Business voice up to 300 is is particularly organizations that up to 300 business voices is hard to be because of what you get out of it. So you get your phone system. You get your PSTN. Calling PSTN conferencing license and you also get. You can then split that out to two different methods as well. You could have one with the calling plan without.
23:25 Jason Wynn
But that for a small org or up to 300 is like a really good offering. That's hard for anybody to beat because you already have to buy those things. If you need that functionality natively from teams or teams itself, or through a directory, we have to have those licenses anyway.
23:42 Steve Goodman
Look at that.
23:45 Steve Goodman
Those bells tell me that it is time to go. I've not got a coffee in front of my hands are freezing. I need one. Well, we've been recording, we've seen like the Bishop come out of the cathedral and everything. I'll put some photos alongside the podcast this week, but boy, it's cold and it's gonna rain in a minute. So we're going to wrap up for today you'll find.
24:05 Steve Goodman
All our episodes on morepodcast.allabout365.com and of course links to mine and jasons oh say, can you see blog? Thanks for joining us. Will be back for more socially distance chat next time